The David Frost Show

Episode Guide

Shaking up the Salt Myth: The Dangers of Salt Restriction
The distracted eater grazes continually. The stressed eater uses food to switch off. December 3, Episode Abderhalden also concluded that any apparent benefit of the inorganic iron resulted from its stimulating effect. Wayneth enjoyed animals, birds, and word search books.

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Health and appearance of Michael Jackson

In late , Jackson was rushed to a hospital after collapsing during rehearsals for a televised performance. Medics cited irregular beats, gastro-intestinal inflammation, dehydration, and kidney and liver irregularities. Neil Ratner, Jackson suffered a back injury in July after one of the stages collapsed during a concert in Munich, Germany.

However, the History Tour continued; there was only one concert cancelled after the fatal accident of Princess Diana about two months later. Jackson was later taken to a hospital. Jackson's promoter Marcel Avram said he [Jackson] received abrasions and bruises. Chuck Merrill, Jackson was in stable condition and would recover within a few days. Todd Bailey said Jackson "continued to need care for some persistent viral symptoms, but otherwise he was in good spirits.

On March 10, , Jackson appeared late in court after having received treatment in a hospital [88] due to a back problem. Jackson's spokeswoman, Raymone Bain, said "stress contributed to the back problem. Christopher Rogers testified in the trial against Dr. Conrad Murray that, in his opinion, Jackson "was healthier than the average person of his age. Another publicly discussed aspect of Jackson's private life is his childhood, particularly his relationship with his father, Joseph.

Although Jackson credited his father's strict discipline with playing a large role in his success, [94] [95] he and some of his siblings stated that they were physically and mentally abused by Joseph from a young age through incessant rehearsals, whippings, and the use of derogatory names such as "big nose" for Michael; this abuse affected Michael throughout his life. One night while Jackson was asleep, Joseph climbed into his room through the bedroom window. Wearing a fright mask, he entered the room screaming and shouting.

Joseph said he wanted to teach his children not to leave the window open when they went to sleep. For a number of years afterward, Jackson suffered nightmares about being kidnapped from his bedroom. By the early s, Jackson was deeply unhappy; Jackson explained, "Even at home, I'm lonely.

I sit in my room sometimes and cry. It's so hard to make friends I sometimes walk around the neighborhood at night, just hoping to find someone to talk to. But I just end up coming home. Although it had been reported for a number of years that Jackson had an abusive childhood, he first spoke openly about it in his interview with Oprah Winfrey. He grimaced when speaking of the childhood abuse at the hands of his father; he believed he had missed out on much of his childhood years, acknowledging that he often cried from loneliness.

I'd start to regurgitate. Please don't be mad at me But I do love him. In , Jackson was accused of child sexual abuse and was acquitted two years later. During the investigation, Jackson's profile was examined by Stan Katz, a mental health professional, who spent several hours with the accuser as well.

According to Taraborrelli, the assessment made by Katz was that Jackson had become a regressed ten-year-old. In none of Jackson's hospitalizations, including the one in late , did medics find drugs in Jackson's system. Taraborrelli states the entertainer took Valium , Xanax and Ativan in He could not remember the dates of his prior album releases or names of people he had worked with. It took him several minutes to name some of his recent albums.

Jackson also stated during the interview that he first began taking painkiller medications regularly in On January 24 of that year, Jackson was filming a Pepsi commercial when his hair caught on fire from faulty pyrotechnics on stage that were intended to be part of one of many being filmed. He sustained second-degree burns to his scalp and never fully recovered from the injury or from the lingering pain.

He reportedly began taking the painkillers after refusing at first in order to deal with the intense pain. On November 9, and November 10, , Jackson was questioned about a copyright matter. According to the sworn declaration from the plaintiffs' lawyer, he had been told that Jackson "was taking painkillers because of recent oral surgery. In November , Jackson announced that he was addicted to painkillers; he said he had recently undergone a scalp surgery, and the painkillers had been prescribed.

Jackson said due to the pressure caused by the child molestation allegations and the energy he needed for the Dangerous Tour, he was "physically and emotionally exhausted. Jackson was taken to Charter Nightingale Clinic where he was searched for drugs on entry; vials of medicine were found in a suitcase. He was put on Valium IV to wean him from painkillers. The singer's spokesperson then told reporters that Jackson was "barely able to function adequately on an intellectual level.

In an interview with Aphrodite Jones, Patrick Treacy , a cosmetic surgeon who treated Jackson between July and early , as well as shortly before his death, stated that he would have known if Jackson would have been also treated by another physician and that he never saw any drugs in the house. He also said that Jackson did not have insomnia and never asked him for narcotics. Treacy stated Jackson was in good physical health; he said Jackson always insisted on the presence of an anesthetist when Propofol was administered.

Rogers testified in court. In the case of Jackson, insomnia could have been caused by "anxiety for performing" as well. He also took prescriptions as "Prince," "Michael Amir," and "Kai Chase," the names of one of his sons, his spokesperson, and his former personal chef, respectively. Following Jackson's death, reports of his use of pethidine Demerol surfaced. On April 19, , he told her the only medicine that would help was propofol.

An overdose of propofol can cause the patient to stop breathing , leading to a shortage of oxygen and a buildup of carbon dioxide in the body which can lead to arrhythmias and cardiac arrest. Due to an inquiry about a cancellation insurance for the upcoming tour, insurance carriers demanded a medical exam by a doctor they trusted. In February , Jackson had an examination performed by Dr. David Slavit of New York.

Later, the broker told an AEG senior vice president Jackson had only slight hay fever and had passed the exam "with flying colors".

A second medical exam was supposed to take place on July 6, According to Lee, she received a frantic call on June 21, , from an aide on Jackson's staff. The aide reported that Jackson was feeling ill. Lee reported overhearing Jackson complain that one side of his body was hot, the other side cold. She believed that somebody had given him something that affected his central nervous system.

She advised the aide to take him to the hospital. After his death, the autopsy report revealed that Jackson had a strong heart and was a "fairly healthy" year-old. According to BBC , his weight was in the acceptable range for a man of his height, but he had punctured arms [H 1] and suffered from lung damage and some arthritis.

The post mortem did not uncover any physical problems that may have limited Jackson's ability to perform. Zeev Kain of the University of California , who reviewed the report for AP but was not involved in the post-mortem examination, "The results are in normal limits.

In , Rogers said in his testimony: Like us Follow us. Your Trusted Exam Results Portal. Sunday, September 16, The complete list of passers, topnotchers top 10 , top performing schools and performance of schools are available here as announced online. The members of the Board for Foresters who gave the licensure examination are Neria A. Andin, Chairman; Jose A. Lorenzo and Gerardo T. The successful examinees who garnered the ten 10 highest places in the September Forester Licensure Examination are the following: Stay tuned for the list of topnotchers The performance of schools in the September Forester Licensure Examination in alphabetical order as per R.

Check back for the performance of schools The two-day examination covered topics from forest ecosystem and forest policy and governance, forest engineering and utilization and forest resources management. I have experiential proof that NaCl is not essential. As for suggesting that sodium and chloride are hard to find in a diet shows a massive ignorance regarding the sodium and chloride content of fruits and vegetable.

Andrew and Janice, thank you. Natural salts from whole foods is all you need, so eat enough of them. Go ahead, keep eating it….. This has something to do with it. Many people have been rescued from looming death by astute doctors wise enough to make immediate prescriptions for more salt intake.

Salt deficiency is a term, not a word, therefore it is an expression used by doctors, quacks, so called health care professionals and a host of sundry members of the public. The fact that the average diet is devoid of sodium rich foods from plants or the animals that ate them, is the primary reason for electrolyte imbalance.

The quick fix sodium chloride infusion is merely a pharmaceutical stop gap for an inherent sodium deficiency, which will have started shortly after birth when toxic NaCl would have been used on a massive scale by the toxic food industry as a preservative, allowing junk convenience food to remain on the shelves for months. Laced with toxins and devoid of nutrients, this product is well known in stomach cancer circles, after decades of its use instead of ingesting sodium rich foods as the norm.

Therefore it is not surprising that some may be deficient of the electrolytes the body rquires. No one is salt deficient, because the compound NaCl is not part of plasma or blood. The fact that a doctor who is taught to use drugs gives someone a sodium chloride infusion, may assist in the short term, but as usual with pharmaceuticals, they never see the cause, only a symptom.

It is a temporary pharmacy fix. An infusion of any sodium rich plant juice would have the same effect.. There are countless numbers of people who have suffered at the hands of drug salesmen. Side effects associated with use of intravenous sodium chloride include: For as many that are helped by this stop gap, quick fix, countless are suddenly rushed to intensive care. I workout 6 days a week, Times a day. My heart rate is beats per minute depending on how sick I am, and I consume roughly calories a day from healthy whole foods and little to no processed foods cheese, luncheon meat, some whole grain pasta and whole wheat bread.

I drink 16 8 oz glasses of water daily, more if training for a large event. I have no sign of hypertension as of right now. I did a study for a specialist a couple of years ago. I ran, swam, biked, weight lifted, ate, drank, whatever was asked for the study. I performed like a man in my prime, and still do, as I get older I am getting better, weird?! The secret is to listen to your body to establish what you need, indulge a little, moderation is key with most diets, stay active, be positive.

The minute you go to fad diets for any reason other than health concerns, than you are messing with the natural order of things.

Organic or budget is the only real choice, and even that is relative. Different things work for different people. Find an organization, federation, association, group or whatever of like-minded individuals and hope what they do works for you if that is your cup of tea.

I hope everyone finds what works for them, good luck and good health wishes to you. This article is seriously irresponsible. Full of pseudo science and selective statistics. All professional medical authorities confirm sodium as the prime factor behind hypertension. To suggest otherwise is pure bunk. Ignore this article and get your advice from a qualified medical specialist.

Phil, a man after my own heart! I have to say though, that I am definitely a fan of sodium! Sodium from plant sources rich in Na, celery beetroot to name two, are to me, a life blood. Its ubiquitous use of adulterated and subsequently therefore, unnaturally toxic sodium chloride is the real concern.

Its process and horribly excessive use as a preservative and seasoning, is our undoing, not the sodium. We just need to make sure we are drinking enough water to flush out the excess salt. A distinction must always be made between science and advertising. This flimsy assault on salt elimination was paid for by the International Salt Miners Association.

After consuming 10 glasses of water on Wednesday, I noticed today that I had symptoms of low blood sodium. What made you drink ten glasses of water? You say you have been on a sodium restricted diet. Do you actually mean salt ie sodium chloride? If not, why would you want to restrict sodium, it is an essential electrolyte?

You also say you now want to raise your salt consumption, why? If you are on a restricted sodium diet, how will you maintain that by increasing salt? What you absolutely have to be clear about is what are you trying to restrict and why, and what are you trying to increase and why? You also have to be clear on the difference of processed toxic salt ie sodium chloride in packaged junk food, and sodium from plant material, or from animals who have eaten the plants. One is junk salt. What is a garden burger?

This sounds horribly like American packaged food and therefore full of sodium chloride. I need information on this where are the most reasonable places to per chase this food. The link still works on our end: I am of the opinion every one is mineral deficient. I suffered chronic fatigue for 4 years potassium showed 3. She put me on microK 8 ME twice a day.

I am no longer exhausted or weak! Worked within a few days. Drinking gallons of orange juice for any reason is an incredibly foolish thing to do as is the statement foolish. High levels of fructose or fruit sugar are contained in every type of orange juice. All fructose is metabolised by the liver, so an excess of it contributes to visceral fat.

As a result heavy fructose consumption can lead to cirrhosis of the liver. The damage caused by excess fructose is very hard to spot, because those suffering from it tend not to look fat.

When you eat a whole piece of fruit, the fructose in it comes equipped with fibre, giving your liver far more time to metabolise it, than with fruit juice. Smoothies are not any better, when the fruit is blended the insoluble fibre is torn to smithereens. No one in their right mind would suggest removing sodium, an essential electrolyte, from a diet. Industrialised sodium chloride, yes, but not sodium. So the hypothesis is irrelevant. The removal of toxic polluted sodium chloride would be beneficial, whilst maintaining intake of plant based sodium, or eating the animals that have consumed plants.

I started a running addiction at age 43 and since then I have run about 60, miles including finishing 40 foot races of or more miles. I also have 38 in-completes at the mile distance. I will be attempting the Lean Horse mile race next Saturday. First when I started running I avoided all fat and had issues with dry skin. I avoided salt and had issues with cramping during marathons and longer races. I also do NOT worry about adding salty things like ketchup to some foods when I eat out.

I now eat at buffets 3 days a week and at home 4 days a week. I started eating lots of pasta and now I eat very little pasta, but LOTS of lightly cooked vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, squash — winter and summer types, peas, corn, green beans, carrots, brussel sprouts, kale, kohlrabi, collard greens, swiss chard, asparagus, potatoes, tomatoes , fruit strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, bananas, watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew, pineapple, pears, apples, grapes, peaches, plums , nuts pecans, almonds, walnuts and meats, salmon and some other fish, chicken and turkey without skin , sirloin steak, pork tenderloin and oatmeal.

I do not eat wheat products or desserts very often. I am 68 inches tall and currently weight pounds depending on how much salt I had. My blood pressure is over with a resting pulse of My glucose is and my triglycerides are Some people do care. I learn from what others say. Yeah maybe he went into a little more detail than was needed but we can still learn from him.

The problem seems to have started around and got progressively worse. So when self-appointed experts began recommending salt restriction I immediately smelled a rat and went back to look at the past fifteen years of my own annual blood test data. The result was not unexpected; my sodium level was consistently maintained just below the lower limit of the recommended guideline range.

Now, my diet has been anything but consistent over this period so apparently evolution has, as we might expect, equipped the body with a sodium control mechanism.. No doubt the data linking hypertension to salt intake is derived from the few people who the medics see with hypertension problems resulting from a dysfunctional sodium control system.

I believe there is even research data to support this conclusion. However when there is insufficient dietary sodium the control mechanism would be unable to function. Notably, the animals are simply given access without restriction. Once again we have the bunglers regulating something taken care of by evolution, something they apparently never studied, along with any consideration of all-cause mortality.

Salt licks a non essential compound as inorganic sodium chloride have no metabolic correlation to essential organic sodium, a required nutrient. Most farmers would expect and want their herds to remain nearby where an addictive substance was made available. That was a sign that there was salt enough to sustain life and provide an income to those who settled there. Many towns and indeed great cities arose because salt was available.

Most dynasties, Chinese for instance were funded on salt tax, because salt is essential to life. You simply die without it. There is no such thing. Sodium cannot exist except as NaCl. It conflagrates with exposure to air. Avery Island, home of McIhennyTabasco sauce is built on millions of tons of solid salt.

Mountains in the Mid-East are solid salt. Mayhap you mean the Ghandi salt. Well, I should not say that. Most sea salts are combination salts. These elements do not exist except as salts. You would rather eat a piece of an animal that ate a rock. That makes you feel OOH so less bad.

Only a fool believes that. No one dies because they do not ingest salt. I have been told and agree not all salt is made the same and sea salt is the best to use. Maybe someday you will discuss the differences? And my mother has it ingrained in her mind we need Iodine salt, is there research on that?

I agree our bodies tell us how much salt we need. My 12 year old daughter was constantly putting LOTS of salt on her food. We were always telling her to stop putting so much salt on her food. We had her tested because she has food sensitivities and we were afraid she was malnourished She was actually sodium deficient. Sodium chloride, salt or NaCl, is the worst possible way to satisfy the bodies need for organic sodium.

No doubt, without an adequate or required abundant supply of an essential nutrient, organic sodium, the nearest evil, inorganic salt, was the only available substitute. This salt sodium chloride in no way fulfils essential sodium deficiency, it is merely an attempt to grab sodium in any form available, even if that form is second rate, or even toxic, to satisfy low organic sodium.

In the long run, sodium chloride, instead of abundant organic sodium could be a metabolic nightmare in the making. No, we need sodium chloride, it is the fluid our entire body runs on. If it did, in emergencies people could be put on MSG drips. We need our internal oceans. I also recall watching a show on elephants in Africa that make some epic pilgrimage every so often to a natural salt dense area and gorge on salt.

Yet another Western medicine backwards piece of garbage advice. But that is the bulk of Western medicine, so one can hardly be surprised. I do have some reservations for refined salt however and personally only use Himalayan or other naturally occurring sea salts. For diagnosis of substance dependence addiction , seven criteria apply and fulfilling at least tree of them signifies addiction. When studied, salt intake according to these criteria, it is seen that most of them are fulfilled, showing that sodium chloride, which is not classified under the psychoactive drugs, is capable of producing addiction.

Animals may become addicted. Interestingly there is a massive referenced article on the fraudulent claims of the delusional Joel Wallach here if you want an insight into his misconceptions. Himalayas are WAY up in the mountains.. For thousands of years mankind has followed animals to find where salt could be found. Those of you who say you can live on the salt in your diet would die because if there WERE no salt for an animal to lick, there would be no animals for you to get salt from their meat.

THEY would have died off for lack of salt. There are salt domes that contain millions of tons of salt worth billions. Some are pure white, NaCl. Eating salt some are different color, Mg, Mn whatever the only source of some of the strategic metals we need. You want pure seasalt, go to India buy what Go fought the British for,the right to gather salt off the sea. It did not pay tax, so it was forbidden. Most of the world has been financed by salt, whether by tax or by selling price. Absolutely vital to human life or the animals we eat.

Google makes us all so smart, does it not? You may not understand what Google says, but you can damned well mimic it. What issue was it from? Yes, I have seen the effects of an inappropriately low-salt diet in some of my patients. It is particularly an issue for those with depleted adrenals. Poor adrenal function means they produce less cortisol and less aldosterone, which is needed to reabsorb sodium. And of course cortisol and aldosterone are built on a backbone of cholesterol.

For some people improving fat digestion is the key that makes a difference. With salt reduction, there is a small physiological increase in plasma renin activity and aldosterone. So might this actually be of benefit to your point about weak adrenals and lack of aldosterone? Fat digestion might simply be giving the permeable cell the correct fats first? So adjust two food stuffs and a number of issues might resolve themselves?

In the studies you have referenced, was iodine in salt controlled for? For many in western countries iodized salt would be the main source of iodine in diet, which begs the question whether the correlations shown are linked to sodium or iodine.

Someone please help me with the conversions here. The study Chris cites indicates 4 to 6 grams of salt excreted in urine per day is associated with lowest CVD risks.

They are measuring by weight and not by sodium density? By my calculations, one teaspoon of salt is roughly 4. Anyone excreting 4 to 6 grams of sodium chloride daily will sooner or later run into serious glomeruli filtration problems. You will also get your necessary chloride from plants. The RDA of salt requirements is a figure for corporations to exist, whilst their food sits on shelves.

Do you have a citation for glomeruli filtration problems? There are a lot of Paleo people doing more than four grams of sodium a day and not showing any adverse effects.

My bad, we are talking salt. I was just asking for citations showing 4 to 6 grams of sodium chloride excretion would cause the problem you cited. Effect of dietary sodium chloride on the development of renal glomerular and vascular lesions in hypertensive rats. The hypothesis that high levels of NaCl in the diet aggravates hypertension-associated renal vascular lesions was examined in unilaterally nephrectomized deoxycorticosterone acetate treated DOCA and two kidney one clip 2K1C hypertensive rats, as well as normotensive controls.

In 2K1C rats this effect may be in part independent of blood pressure. I grant you the grams aren't indicated, but this amount of excretion and therefore intake of toxic NaCl is in my opinion, high, in fact very high. I am sorry the figures that you or I quoted, are not included, but in the spirit of saving one's kidneys from the eventual slow but sure damage in later life, that I have personally witnessed, grams of salt is a high intake for anyone, even the metabolically challenged; who would be far better off using Organic salts of sodium from plants, which are the essential nutritive cellular sodium requirement, and not to substitute this with the short term gain, but long term damage of NaCl.

During the s I worked for an internist, Irwin Salkin, M. I typed the document but do not retain any of the details after so many decades, but find it interesting that recent, widely quoted, articles detail findings similar to those he noted some FIFTY years ago.

An article discussing the weaknesses of relying on those mentioned J-curve studies http: An article discussing the dissonant findings regarding moderate salt consumption and CVD http: Thank you for this.

It now seems that low sodium may be the cause. I also found a very informative New York Times article about this topic: The problem with that interesting link, is that their is no mention of whether the salts in question were organic from plant base material, equalling useful metabolic sodium, or from inorganic salt, less useful for human metabolism.

Rock based minerals are not so readily or easily absorbed by the body as plant based minerals. Plant based material fulfils all the electrolytes for a reasonably healthy person, and are the correct organic source for sodium and other salts. How did you come by this idea?

There are good moral grounds perhaps but scientific and health grounds seem highly unlikely. Plus, there is no such thing as organic sodium. As for the false notion that there is no such thing as organic salts of sodium, how has humanity in antiquity survived without the essential?

Photosynthesis combines photons with inorganic matter to create organic matter, also known as plants. Well, yes, powdered nails are a perfectly acceptable source of iron for the body. In fact, most fortified breakfast cereals contain iron filings your powdered nails and these dissolve in your stomach acid and are absorbed and used. Why on earth would they not be? Also, the distinction between organic and inorganic is basically a formal distinction between two branches of chemistry, and not somehow something different about the matter involved.

So the sodium ions from any source are indistinguishable once they enter solution in your bloodstream. Finally, photons are immaterial particles whose role in photosynthesis is just to supply the energy for the matter both organic and inorganic substrate, by the way to be converted from one form to another.

I thought you would be an advocate of heavy metal acceptance in junk food. None the less, thank you for the response, I really do appreciate it. We will never agree. I will never choose to get my minerals from any other source than plants.

The cell membrane is far too important to be plaguing it with ferrous from ground up nails. The chemical reaction may be the process or concept which fools people into believing that iron from nails is ok but the cellular response is in no way the same.

I wish we could meet, because these posts are limited for various reasons, and we can endlessly put varying views, but will always fundamentally disagree. I am tired of the way scientists view food, they gave us hydrogenated fats for decades, convinced the science was good, only to discover in fact, a toxic, lethal cellular disaster If you would like to swap a link, that would be a nice conclusion.

I think this one among many is interesting. While it is true that the same minerals found in the human body are also found in the soil and water it is wrong to assume that the minerals in the soil are food for man. We are not soil eaters—we are plant eaters. It is necessary that the minerals in the soil be elaborated into organic compounds by the plant before they can be assimilated by the body.

The various mineral compounds produced by the chemist differ in their structure and in the relative positions of their component molecules than those produced in the plant.

Over sixty years ago a German scientist named Abderhalden conducted a series of experiments comparing how several species absorbed different forms of iron. He found that animals fed with food poor in iron, plus in addition of inorganic iron, were unable in the long run to produce as much hemoglobin as those, receiving a natural iron-sufficient diet.

While the inorganic iron may be absorbed into the body, it is not utilized in the formation of hemoglobin, but remains unused within the tissues. Abderhalden also concluded that any apparent benefit of the inorganic iron resulted from its stimulating effect.

Chemically, it is true that iron in the bloodstream and iron in nails are the same and that calcium in rocks known as dolomite is identical to calcium in the bones. However, it is a grave error to believe that the body can digest and assimilate and utilize powdered nails and crushed rocks. Presumably your plants get their salt from minerals as salt is just a mineral. Someone that is exercising salt restriction but still sticking to low-sodium processed foods would most likely be not consuming a lot of potassium.

Conversely, someone consuming whole foods no salt added will be getting lots of potassium while still not getting a ton of salt. Can you please check this https: His treatment to any disease and advice to lead happy life is no salt and oil in diet. He says that sodium required by body in less than mg per day and these can be achieved by eating cup of cooked spinach or any leafy vegetables. I eat nothing processed and live on vegetables fruits nuts seeds.

Unless you are metabolically challenged there is enough sodium in above diet. Sodium and salt are not interchangeable terms.

As for farmers using salt licks, this has no bearing on metabolic needs, as like humans, animals can become addicted to sodium chloride. I have experiential proof, as does the naturopath mentioned. Vegetables and fruits contain sodium as an individual electrolyte and they contain chloride as an individual electrolyte. This in no way equates to vegetables or fruits containing salt. Salts of sodium yes, salts of chloride yes, but they most certainly do not contain a compound NaCl.

That should tell anyone something. Why do people love to bring out addiction? It would help immensely. I have severe pain in my knees and hips and recently been getting cramps in my fingers and calves, I sauna almost every day, could my symptoms be caused by lack of salt due to sweating.

I am male, 55, and otherwise fit and well. Can anyone help please?. And of course right here on Chris Kresser, he goes into lots of detail in his articles about this. Just stay the course because it takes a while but this is really the key. Also another great tip is to have half a teaspoon of fermented cod liver oil — fermented!

Have you tried Glucosamine or any substance with it? Maybe Chondroiton as well , whichever works. Sometimes they are combined and work just fine.

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